[Gaz]

SJ Buzz Drought, on 17 Mar 2009, 04:00 PM, said:

i cant see the advantage to awarding the driver with the most wins the title!

can anyone point out something ive obviously missed?

It lets Ferrari fans point out until the end of time that under the new system they should have won last year, and Bernie likes to keep the boys in red happy.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

FOTA not happy

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Hooray! Ferrari shift another dark force

I've been so relieved since Scumacher retired, in that I could now allow myself to like Ferrari, something I had been wanting to do for a long time. But it was the Brawn/Bryne/Todt triangle that surrounded Scumacher that upset me as much as the Flying Chin himself..... and I was pleased when Todt stepped down from the F1 team but he was still a main man for Ferrari overall... but not anymore.

Of course, now I support BrawnGP which flies in the face of almost all of my entire F1 watching history. But hey. I reconciled that when he joined Honda. He has to work for his forgiveness. Testing has been a good start.

(Apologies to linking to the words of James Allen, blame the person whose link I followed initially.)

[HJCotW Spacemonkey]

I don't profess to know an overload about F1, but I reckon this new system is just stupid. Although, of course, it will save money, as, as soon as the title is wrapped up, the winning driver can just not bother turning up anymore.

I don't see the point in completely changing a system that has worked for years, and yet, every single year seems to bring massive changes in F1.

MoT

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Funny F1 podcast/blog

It makes me giggle. Although I don't agree with everything they say (they are mean about Mark Webber). But the bit about Nick Heidfeld in the actual podcast bit made me laugh out loud, which was nice.

[DG Joinee NEMESIS]

hehe

Not long now....really starting to get into this now i'm back to my desk.
Just need to get into this league thing.....

will do it at lunch!

[dazface]

Not to sure on the driver standings, would mean consistency wouldn't count for much so people like Kubica last year for example wouldn't of done anywhere near as well (according to the new style table) which is a bit unfair on the lower teams

[Joinee Hathorn]

Well this years lower teams look to include Mclaren, so as I detest SIr Ron of Dennis I think that would be great!

[dazface]

Yeah him and Lewis make a truly hateful team...

[Joinee Hathorn]

I don't hate Lewis, I just don't want him to win at McLaren....I'm always the same when a rookie gets a really good drive.

[DG Joinee NEMESIS]

I can see an argument for consistency. But frankly i think that should stay in the manufacturers points and rankings systems. If you can produce a reliable car that is a guarantee of mechanically finishing a race - that's where consistency should be.

If you want to win a Grand Prix titles. Win races. Kers, New Aerodynamics, Lighter Cars all conspire together to mean that every driver has new tools to help in the overtaking and risk taking factors. Hamilton could excel at this - but Kubica had some really gutsy races last year with rather a lot of "interesting" manoeuvres in places. So most importantly "Driver Gumption" is going to drive a very interesting championship. VERY interesting

I'm of the "bring it on" vein at the moment and just had a little bounce in my chair

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

And they're trying to encourage more overtaking/driver gumption by making it so that if you're in second place and not too far behind, you're not going to be happy just sitting there thinking 'it's only 2 points, i can make that back' (not that I think racing drivers are generally happy 'just sitting there'... but I mean, they won't want to risk too much in that situation) whereas if it's vital for their championship hopes that they get that win instead of the driver in front, they might be more inclined to make a move.

So I do see what they're trying to do here. It just seems rather messy.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

McLaren had a new rear wing (and possibly other new stuff, I've only heard about the wing) today and found themselves some pace. Kovy was 1.18.202 (compared to the fastest time on the track so far, which was Jenson yesterday at 1.17.844).

Dammit!

Tomorrow is the last day of pre-season testing, and only McLaren will be on track.

[Joinee Hathorn]

There was an interesting article on the BBC... the main point being made was that the Massa more race victories last year was only so because of Hamiltons questionable (pah!) demotion in Belgium last year.... if this thing is going to fly, the Stewards might need some clearer guidlines on what penalties they can and can't award.

[dazface]

Yay Webber said what I did -

"Robert Kubica would have been nowhere near the championship last year (under the new rules), and do you want that?" he continued. "Robert drove awesome last year and he would have been nowhere near the title hunt with these regulations."

We know what we're on about!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Kovy and Nakajima were on track today (I had read it'd be only McLaren, but evidently Williams were there too).

Nakajima set the fastest lap of the whole Jerez testing session, pipping Jenson's previous time by a few tenths. Kovalainen made hit the 1min 17s, but was still a couple of seconds behind JB's time (ha, McLaren!) (I'm assuming the Williams is not ACTUALLY the fastest car of the lot now!) I guess the track would have been getting quicker as the days have gone on, as more rubber has been put down? I am using this as reasoning in my head as to part of why McLaren have got a bit quicker over the past 2 days (when they haven't had the Brawns around to compare to). (Although I also know it'll only be a couple of tenths at the most... but.... shh!)

I still don't *believe* in the Brawn hype. But I still hope.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Oh, also, I put this in the smile thread, but: Buemi's diary Wtf?!

And, thanks to dazface for a Mark Webber classic regarding the new budget cap rules "It's like saying Coventry can play with 30 players against Manchester United with 11," Webber told the BBC. Or in tennis, we'll lower the net for you because you don't have as good a racket, and we'll put it back up again for the other guy." I love that man.

[dazface]

Silver Poohbah, on 19 Mar 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

And, thanks to dazface for.... stuff

Ahh bless you for not taking my glory!

Here is another good link, a video of the new Red Bull car with Vettell talking through the changes in the new 2009 car, very impressive!

Beat you this time Lou!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

I am no glory stealer! I was gonna tell you to put that one up, so good work I do like that one.

[Joinee Hathorn]

Silver Poohbah, on 19 Mar 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

Oh, also, I put this in the smile thread, but: Buemi's diary Wtf?!

I think I now have a new second favourite driver... that, quite frankly, is awesome!!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

"I try to explain it is Swiss chocolate and therefore not just a “foodstuff.” " Oh it did make me giggle. I want an update.

[Distant Joinee Mandoran]

This might be of interest? http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseu...st_forward.aspx

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Ooo thats quite cool in a very geeky way. It's finished by the time I'm in London though

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Ooo, also:

Quote

"We go into the start of the 2009 season fully aware that we do not yet have the technical package that will allow our drivers to fight at the front," Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh admitted.

*waits impatiently to see*

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

FOTA claim the change to points system is invalid for 2009

Wonder what the FIA will say to that...

This is all good fun. Incidently, for some reason a load of F1 news folks added me to Twitter, so I've added them back (which then makes even more of them add me) so as well as always looking at gpupdate.net I get twittered the latest news. Hence why I seem to have endless links nowadays.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Looks like winner-takes-all could be postponed to 2010...

[Kneller2]

...and formula 1 gets even more farcical!

[Gaz]

Ha ha! In your aged face stolen from Andy Warhol, Bernie!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Kneller2, on 21 Mar 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

...and formula 1 gets even more farcical!

It gets worse!! (Diffuser argument)

It's going to be ridiculous and annoying and a lot of people are going to be pissed off whichever way it goes. And if one of the teams with the possibily illegal diffuser wins in Oz, they are just SO going to be disqualified, you can just tell.

F1 really is a shambles a lot of the time

(But I still love it: ONE WEEK TO GO!)

This post has been edited by Silver Poohbah: 21 March 2009 - 03:16 PM

[dazface]

I love this thread, now I can just come on here to find out what's been going on in the world of F1 so easily and for this I thank you all...

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

IT'S ALMOST ROB SMEDLEY TIME!!!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Here is tomorrow's news:

They are sillies, the lot of them.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

I don't have a link at hand, but there was an interview with Bernie in the Times today. And he was stirring stuff about how Ross Brawn is on the committee that decides things, so he probably knows stuff before the other team manager knows stuff, and he can probably steer decisions in certain directions too, and so therefore it's not really fair. Bernie wasn't saying he was gonna do anything about it. He was just stirring for the sake of stirring


Meanwhile, that nice Mr O'Glock seems confident about Toyota this year...

Quote

"Brawn GP went out in Barcelona and were straight on the pace, and they were quick over a long run as well from what we could see on the lap times. It looks like they are a little bit ahead of the pack slightly, and after that I don't know if we are the second team or if Ferrari are slightly quicker than us. It is all mixed up and it depends as well a little bit on the circuit.

Eee, in less than a week we will have much more of an idea over who is being delusional and who is sandbagging and who is genuinely quick/rubbish. Can't wait.

[DG Joinee NEMESIS]

Less than a week
I'm now researching bars in the Alps where I can watch this. There has to be one in La Plagne! HAS to be! Cos bloody I-Player doesn't work abroad.....YET!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Courtesy of Twitter: currently raining in the glorious land of Melbourne. Forecast is mixed. Possible showers on Sunday. Ooo!

Also: Red Bull have stated their intent to cause havoc for BrawnGP, in regards to the legality of the car (the diffuser in particular, I take it). From a BrawnGP point of view, this could be not good.

[DG Joinee NEMESIS]

Silver Poohbah, on 24 Mar 2009, 11:04 PM, said:

Also: Red Bull have stated their intent to cause havoc for BrawnGP, i

I haven't seen the story - do they have a case?!

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Basically, a couple of the teams (BrawnGP, I believe Toyota, and can't remember the third one) have read around the rules and done something different to the other teams. They claim it's totally above board, not breaking the rules, just interpreting them differently. Of course, the other teams are all adamant it's cheating.

Max feels he's had no time to sort it out before the season starts. Therefore, at the race weekend, if the stewards say it's all ok, the other teams (definitely Red Bull) will appeal. And so basically it'll almost certainly all end up going to court until someone says 'no, you definitely can't do that' (or 'yes, you definitely can') once and for all.

But for now, it's just going to screw with everything. Especially if Brawn ARE superquick and get a good haul of points in the first race... will that stand? will they be disqualified if the car is found to be illegal? is it something they can change quickly and effectively (apparently the suspension is based around it too? i got that off twitter too, don't know what the original source is)? or will changing that ruin everything?

*sits and waits*

[dazface]

Yeah I was reading about this at work to day... I meant in my spare time today - See here - there's also the link on the page for the more techie stuff for the geeks (myself included) out there

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Oh yes, I actually read that earlier today. And the techie one. And then promptly forgot that I'd done so..!

[Gaz]

To be honest I think something does seem a bit iffy here. Honda were never on the money race-wise, and Brawn GP are just the hastily bailed out remnants of Honda. They don't have the best drivers, certainly don't have the biggest budget, have a bought-in engine in place of a bespoke Honda powerplant (which you assume the car was originally designed for) and they didn't exactly have the ideal circumstances coming into the season. Therefore, for them to come out with what seems to be an incredibly fast car that's so much ahead of others is...well, unlikely. Not impossible, and if they've beaten the odds and produced a winner despite the upheaval then good on them. But unlikely for sure.

Regardless, it has got them good publicity. And in a sport powered by advertising, that's definitely a good thing.

[PJ Stevie G]

Gaz, on 25 Mar 2009, 08:16 AM, said:

To be honest I think something does seem a bit iffy here. Honda were never on the money race-wise, and Brawn GP are just the hastily bailed out remnants of Honda. They don't have the best drivers, certainly don't have the biggest budget, have a bought-in engine in place of a bespoke Honda powerplant (which you assume the car was originally designed for) and they didn't exactly have the ideal circumstances coming into the season. Therefore, for them to come out with what seems to be an incredibly fast car that's so much ahead of others is...well, unlikely. Not impossible, and if they've beaten the odds and produced a winner despite the upheaval then good on them. But unlikely for sure.

Bear in mind that the remnants of Honda has been working on the 2009 car since pre-season 2008 too. Of course the engine spec being different will have an effect on the original design, but I don't think it's as much as some have made out.

Also I'd argue to say they have at least one of the top 6 drivers currently in F1, albeit one who's been poorly managed and made awful career decisions while Barichello has a ton of experience under his belt and is certainly no slouch.

But of course Ross Braun is involved, so things are always going to seem a little iffy. At least Rory Byrne isn't around, otherwise it'd be Benneton 1994/5 all over again.

[Gaz]

Silver Stalker Stevie G, on 25 Mar 2009, 08:27 AM, said:

Also I'd argue to say they have at least one of the top 6 drivers currently in F1, albeit one who's been poorly managed and made awful career decisions while Barichello has a ton of experience under his belt and is certainly no slouch.

Well that whole package of errors of judgement (plus only ever winning 1 race where everyone else conveniently crashed and having had his best-ever season 5 years ago) is kind of why Button is not one of the best drivers in F1. Certainly not top 6 given we have 3 world champions racing this year.

Still, nice to have someone fill the vacant David Coulthard role of British driver who should have won but forgot to get round to it

[PJ Stevie G]

Gaz, on 25 Mar 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

Well that whole package of errors of judgement (plus only ever winning 1 race where everyone else conveniently crashed and having had his best-ever season 5 years ago) is kind of why Button is not one of the best drivers in F1. Certainly not top 6 given we have 3 world champions racing this year.

Still, nice to have someone fill the vacant David Coulthard role of British driver who should have won but forgot to get round to it

Ok, thinking about it he ranks maybe top 7 (I forgot Kubica). If you think about it though, what other drivers would you out ahead of him? Heidfeld, Trulli and Webber are in the same boat as him (Heidfeld and Webber in a smaller one too without an F1 win), Rosberg isn't fulfilling his potential and Heikki has number 2 driver syndrome. The rest just aren't good enough right now.

But yes, the latter point is correct

On another note, if you have red button access on your tv, go to a Beeb channel, select sports multiscreen and then select Classic F1, you can see highlights of 5 classic Australian Grand Prixs (40 odd minutes on 1986 and 1994 too). I'm loving BBC so far with their F1 coverage, and they haven't really started yet.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Boo, now they think it's drying out so no rain at the weekend. Of course, this is Melbourne. I don't think we'll actually know until Sunday evening what it's going to do on Sunday afternoon.

And I think Steve just said everything else I was thinking of saying, so, there we go. The main point being the extra 6 months (or however long) development that the Brawn car got over every other car on the grid during the 2008 season. And yeah, ok, they had an awful winter, but they also kept working on it. They didn't just go "oh, I don't know what's happening, I'll just sit here"..... they kept at it. So whilst I'd doubt they were working 100% to their best ability over that time, they were still working damned hard. So I don't think it's so strange that the car could be so vastly improved. Also, just having Brawn in charge will have helped massively.

Having said that, I'm still expecting to be in tears on Saturday as JB and Rubens qualify 15th and 16th or some such

[Gaz]

Silver Poohbah, on 25 Mar 2009, 09:50 AM, said:

Boo, now they think it's drying out so no rain at the weekend. Of course, this is Melbourne. I don't think we'll actually know until Sunday evening what it's going to do on Sunday afternoon.

And I think Steve just said everything else I was thinking of saying, so, there we go. The main point being the extra 6 months (or however long) development that the Brawn car got over every other car on the grid during the 2008 season. And yeah, ok, they had an awful winter, but they also kept working on it. They didn't just go "oh, I don't know what's happening, I'll just sit here"..... they kept at it. So whilst I'd doubt they were working 100% to their best ability over that time, they were still working damned hard. So I don't think it's so strange that the car could be so vastly improved. Also, just having Brawn in charge will have helped massively.

Having said that, I'm still expecting to be in tears on Saturday as JB and Rubens qualify 15th and 16th or some such

How can Brawn have had longer than everyone else to develop their car? It wasn't even finalised they'd be racing until a short while ago, so they can't have had all the deals finalised as to who'd supply what and you can't just go swapping parts about in F1 cars (Brawn has said himself that the upheaval has meant their KERS isn't working). Plus no one is saying the team just packed in and stopped work, but come on - if you thought there was a very good chance you'd be out of a job soon and/or all your work was going to be for nothing, would your eye be 100% on the ball? And having Brawn in charge might help - but by the same token it didn't help Honda that much. Certainly not to a position they were whipping everyone speed-wise the moment he joined.

If there were no accusations facing them, it'd just be a superb job in the circumstances. Throw in the fact that part of the car is allegedly illegal, and suddenly you have a far more plausible and likely explanation for why an average team on the brink of going bust and being out altogether suddenly seem to be faster than everyone else - they're faster because they're doing something fundamentally different. Whether that "thing" is eventually decided to be ok or cheating, and if the latter whether it's bending the rules or kicking the living daylights out of them, is another matter.

[PJ Stevie G]

Gaz, on 25 Mar 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

How can Brawn have had longer than everyone else to develop their car? It wasn't even finalised they'd be racing until a short while ago, so they can't have had all the deals finalised as to who'd supply what and you can't just go swapping parts about in F1 cars (Brawn has said himself that the upheaval has meant their KERS isn't working). Plus no one is saying the team just packed in and stopped work, but come on - if you thought there was a very good chance you'd be out of a job soon and/or all your work was going to be for nothing, would your eye be 100% on the ball? And having Brawn in charge might help - but by the same token it didn't help Honda that much. Certainly not to a position they were whipping everyone speed-wise the moment he joined.

If there were no accusations facing them, it'd just be a superb job in the circumstances. Throw in the fact that part of the car is allegedly illegal, and suddenly you have a far more plausible and likely explanation for why an average team on the brink of going bust and being out altogether suddenly seem to be faster than everyone else - they're faster because they're doing something fundamentally different. Whether that "thing" is eventually decided to be ok or cheating, and if the latter whether it's bending the rules or kicking the living daylights out of them, is another matter.

Honda (under Brawn's direction) started concentrating fully on the 2009 car in April last year. No development was made on the 2008 charger at all during this time. This was done much earlier than any other team. And of course as Brawn GP bought out Honda, they got all the development, materials and such that Honda had been working on. Ergo, they've had much more time to develop the 2009 car. Of course there'll be differences in performance with the new engine, but the basic framework was there.

KERS-wise, that's not really an issue. Only Ferrari and Renault are running it in Australia, so there are 7 other teams that can't get it working properly either.

Still don't know if the diffuser is illegal or not, but don't forget it's not just Brawn in trouble; Toyota and Williams have similar designs to Brawn.

[Gaz]

As I said, you can work on the aerodynamics, but if you start swapping about what goes inside that's still going to make a whole heap of difference. Swapping powerplants, having access to Honda facilities withdrawn and having to switch to new (e.g. windtunnels and the like), simply building up a new stack of data for the revised car with the new setup, having the car be a different weight etc.

The KERS I only mention as an example of how the upheaval can affect things - they were working on it, it should have been ready, but it isn't and the reason that has been given by the team themselves is the shake-up. And it's pretty fair to say it's unlikely that the only thing affected was one component.

Like I said above, it is possible that despite all this they just pulled it all together and have been very lucky it all worked brilliantly. But it's also much more likely we don't know the whole story yet.

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

Gaz, on 25 Mar 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

How can Brawn have had longer than everyone else to develop their car? ...... Plus no one is saying the team just packed in and stopped work, but come on - if you thought there was a very good chance you'd be out of a job soon and/or all your work was going to be for nothing, would your eye be 100% on the ball?

No, I don't think I would be 100% on the ball. Which is, actually, what I said - "So whilst I'd doubt they were working 100% to their best ability over that time, they were still working damned hard." Clearly they kept working hard, because whilst it didn't look great, there was still a chance. And they've ended up with a car and not just a heap of blueprints and a "well, if we hadn't just sat and eaten biscuits the whole time since Honda left us, the car would probably look like this..." (mm.... biscuits). I'd guess that after so many months of focusing on the 2009 car, and everyone being so optimistic about it, they'd probably want to keep going so that if they did get bought out, they'd get to show off their handiwork.

Quote

And having Brawn in charge might help - but by the same token it didn't help Honda that much. Certainly not to a position they were whipping everyone speed-wise the moment he joined.

Of course he didn't immediately help Honda's performance. They had a godawful car. But I think he helped them as a team. They got such a confidence boost just from him being there - suddenly they had light at the end of their tunnel. I assume he sorted them all out back stage, got their motivation up (probably just by existing) and then he STARTED WORK ON THE 2009 CAR. See? There wasn't much he could do with the 2008 car, and there was not much point wasting time and money on developing it so that it was a bit more driveable by the end of the season, when these developments would have been no use in the future, what with the changing regs. So they left the 2008 car and, as Steve says, focused on the 2009 car a long time before any of the other teams did.

He may be some sort of genius, but he's not a god. He couldn't just click his fingers and make 2008 ok. So he did the next best thing, and channeled everyone's efforts into making 2009 ok.



... I probably didn't really need to reply coz Steve already replied. But I couldn't help myself.

Oh, also, latest rumour from the pitlane (I'm following Lee McKenzie - the new Louise Goodman - on Twitter) "It sounds like diffusers may be just one of many rows brewing in Australia" ...ooOOoo....

Gaz, on 25 Mar 2009, 11:20 AM, said:

As I said, you can work on the aerodynamics, but if you start swapping about what goes inside that's still going to make a whole heap of difference. Swapping powerplants, having access to Honda facilities withdrawn and having to switch to new (e.g. windtunnels and the like), simply building up a new stack of data for the revised car with the new setup, having the car be a different weight etc.

Would they really have had to switch everything though?? (This is an actual question. Because I don't know).

I don't get the feeling Honda went "we're out, see ya, byeee!" and ran off taking everything with them. I don't think suppliers would say "well you're not called Honda anymore, so we're having nothing to do with you". Surely a lot of stuff (windtunnels etc?) would be "team" stuff rather than "Honda" stuff...?

[Joinee Hathorn]

Gaz, on 25 Mar 2009, 11:20 AM, said:

As I said, you can work on the aerodynamics, but if you start swapping about what goes inside that's still going to make a whole heap of difference. Swapping powerplants, having access to Honda facilities withdrawn and having to switch to new (e.g. windtunnels and the like), simply building up a new stack of data for the revised car with the new setup, having the car be a different weight etc.

The KERS I only mention as an example of how the upheaval can affect things - they were working on it, it should have been ready, but it isn't and the reason that has been given by the team themselves is the shake-up. And it's pretty fair to say it's unlikely that the only thing affected was one component.

Like I said above, it is possible that despite all this they just pulled it all together and have been very lucky it all worked brilliantly. But it's also much more likely we don't know the whole story yet.

The aerodynamics are much less significant this year than in the last few seasons, so I doubt that it is their aero package that is helping Brawn. Essentially the regulations are forcing the teams to develop well balanced, nice handling cars, a simplification of the recent machines and back to something more like the early 90's, where Benetton and then Ferrari under Brawn both flourished. I'd be pretty sure that the rear diffuser, which is obviously contentious, is the main reason for the gulf of performance difference.

The merc engine is probably similar to the honda in size and weight distribution so again, maybe not a big disruption...possibly it helped improve the cog...? The access to facilites almost certainly han't changed, honda provided power train design from Japan, everything else is based in the UK...I believe. KERS can be ignored....I presume that it is Brawn who are going with the Flybrid system as it is supposedly a british team and it isn't Williams or Red Bull...or McLaren. So it's developed by somebody else and irrelevant to the debate.

Honda didn't pull out until December, and it surprised a few people, most of the design would have been nailed by then, so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on that disruption.

I don't think there will be any other surprises...if the diffuser is banned we will see them slow down...if it isn't, everybody will have it in Malaysia as surely there are all developing it now...?

I enjoyed Frank Williams bigging up Toyota, he still loves them for bailing them out with an engine!

[Gaz]

Silver Poohbah, on 25 Mar 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

Would they really have had to switch everything though?? (This is an actual question. Because I don't know).

Well put it this way. F1 is the breeding ground for what goes into most modern cars and is as much research lab as it is sport. As a result the teams (and the manufacturers) are secretive about stuff at the best of times. Consequently I doubt e.g. Mercedes would want their engines being pored over in a Honda facility, and I doubt Honda fancy letting Mercedes representatives into said facility to monitor what happens to their engine and get a good look around their testing rigs. Plus there must be all manner of non-disclosure agreements and the like to prevent performance data being bandied about. As a result some of facilities available when they were Team Honda *must* have been withdrawn. Which isn't to say equally good other facilities aren't available - just that an upheaval is an upheaval and can be disruptive to progress.

Also, if the aerodynamics were that insignificant then this whole rear diffuser issue (which is part of the aerodynamics, so I don't get your argument that they aren't significant?) would be a non-contentious point. As it is, some of the teams think this is making a huge heap of difference. After all, the whole world championship was won last year because of tenths of a second differences meaning McLaren could work out that Hamilton would pass to gain a place before he ran out of laps.