[Joinee Parkin]

Anyone intending on giving out JM leaflets, stickers etc - I'm afraid you can't. As part of their crackdown on litter, Birmingham City Council have a new "Free Literature consent scheme" which means that if you want to distribute leaflets, stickers etc, you have to apply for a lincence, which costs £250 PER DISTRIBUTOR!

So, rather than risk getting us into trouble and bringing the name of Join Me into disrepute, can I request that you don't give out leaflets? Please and thank you.

*shuffles back over to City Council website to check legislation regarding post-it notes*
edit to add info:
More info:
It's political correctness gone mad I tell you!

This post has been edited by SRJ Parkin: 03 January 2007 - 01:17 PM

[Golden Judas]

Surely that only applies to people who are trying to sell something??Surely??

[Fab Loud SMJ YDMFreshmaker]

A simple solution could be to simply leave the leaflets/stickers in high traffic areas and allow people to collect them themselves. Therefor your not distributing them.

[Joinee Parkin]

Scott: It doesn't matter whether we're selling stuff or not. The only exemptions are religious or political organisations, and we're not.

Toby: Afraid we can't do that either. Someone's obviously thought this through and what tyou're suggesting is banned in their conditions.

The area in which this applies is most of the City centre; however, the Arcadian centre and Chinese quarter (where the Big Wok is), and the "Gay village" is not included, so you 're ok leafletting there I think.

[sjdwh]

Fab Loud Silver J YDMFresmaker, on 3 Jan 2007, 01:16 PM, said:

A simple solution could be to simply leave the leaflets/stickers in high traffic areas and allow people to collect them themselves. Therefor your not distributing them.

Surely that's *actually* littering?

From the website:

Quote

where the distribution is for political purposes or for the purpose of a religion or belief.

(My bold)
Surely karma and niceness falls under the title of a belief?

I'd also like to add: About bloody time someone started charging for it. If it means I'm not offered a phone card every 15 seconds, I'm happy.

[Au Joinee Rory]

SRJ Parkin, on 3 Jan 2007, 01:20 PM, said:

Scott: It doesn't matter whether we're selling stuff or not. The only exemptions are religious or political organisations, and we're not.

Stupid bullshıt pro-religious discrimination. Thinking that people should be nice to each other isn't worthy of distribution, but belief in a woo-woo sky fairy is? There's the same bloody-minded anti-rationalism in the Charities Bill.

[GJ Michelle P]

Religious propaganda is the last type of leaflet I'd want to be handed.

[sjdwh]

Gold Joinee Patzlaff, on 4 Jan 2007, 02:22 AM, said:

Religious propaganda is the last type of leaflet I'd want to be handed.

You forget how fun some of it is though!!! I have a friend who has a tendancy to annotate them, and return them.

[Joinee Parkin]

I know, it's stupid. It's OK for the BNP but not for us. I can see that they're trying to do something about the litter problem, which is a positive move, and I think it's good that charities don't have to pay, but the religious and political thing annoys me.

At least when you get handed a flier for say a nightclub, you know they're doing it as a business and they're selling a product.

But some of the religious and political stuff you get given is sometimes really insidious and as Michelle said, it's propaganda.

Ho hum.

Anyone want my soapbox?

Edit to say: Dan, you might be onto something there.
So we're not a religion, but we are promoting a belief, i.e. we believe that it's nice to be nice, and we would like to promote that belief.

And it doesn't say anywhere in the City Council website that there are any penalties for not having a licence.

We could always just plead ignorance if we get stopped . . . . *trying to look all innocent and angelic*

This post has been edited by SRJ Parkin: 04 January 2007 - 10:25 AM

[Fab Loud SMJ YDMFreshmaker]

Quote

a woo-woo sky fairy

Rory.

Legend.

[sjdwh]

I *may* give them a ring to see what they think... If I can be arsed...

[Poohbah (Gsq)]

SJ Wagner-Hall (dwh), on 4 Jan 2007, 07:41 AM, said:

You forget how fun some of it is though!!! I have a friend who has a tendancy to annotate them, and return them.

That's true. The Jews 4 Jesus folk in Melbourne had some ACE ones. I'd actually walk past them on purpose just to see what delights the new leaflets were offering. I kept some of them, they made me laugh so much. They still make me laugh to this day. I'm not 100% sure that they're meant to.

And then there was the ones I kept getting that started with "Hello. I love you." (they were meant to be a letter from God). My friend was never handed them... only me.

Eventually she got a leaflet that I didn't get. She was happy that it was SHE who was loved, and not I. And then she read hers and it was all about the "icy grip of death" and stuff, and not love. She was sad. And oh, how I laughed.

And here finisheth my leaflet-related, apologetically Australian-based, story.

[PJ Steff Worthington]

Quote

and I think it's good that charities don't have to pay

oh but darling, we do. The PFRA organises lisences for which charity agencies have to pay a great deal. The councils do quite well out of charity.

[PJ Steff Worthington]

e-mail sent.

[Fairy joinee jenkins]

Well that sucks! Can we still give out stickers that don't say join me or anything on them?

[Diamond Joinee Matt F]

Is it time we just damn-well cheated and created a spin-off Proper Little Charity, to avail ourselves of that sort of loophole in those sorts of rules?

note: I'm being fascetious or however you spell it. *but*, collecting micro-amounts of money and spending it on such a potential charity's defined goals of "spreading happiness, merriment and good cheer to the general public" could be an interesting idea to ponder... By micro-amounts, I mean enough to buy some sweeties to give out, that sort of thing

(I'm very hesitant to raise this idea beyond the status of "christ on a bike it's almost 8am and Matt hasn't gone to bed yet" stupid bloody ramblings - and don't intend to do-down the efforts and value of "Real Charities", etc.)

[Au³ Joinee Jamie]

There is another way of propaganding which doesnt involve leaflets, flyers or littering.

We did it at loverpool 2.5 and ive done it before too, in birmingham city center with no complaints.

I've always found Chalking the pavement to be a wonderful way to get the message across, it washes away when it rains, i think it's classed as street art. ( the photos are from when i did it for one of my first RAoK's last year, its lovely to do, people always walk over to look what you were doing and then usually smile and walk off)

We could always do that again, i have loads of chalk still.

[PJ Wopunga (GA)]

ooh...lets chalk the pavement! i've never done that before!

[G Jaffa Cake J Hug-a-Goth]

why didn't i think of it before?? CHALK! IS THE ANSWER! good boy jamie!
xx giu

[HRH Gold Joinee Sheli]

slightly off topic but

this one

almost made me cry (in a good way)

good work that man!

[RJ Cooley]

beer mats?

[Honorary Lesbian Rich]

Chalk! Fantastic idea!

[Joinee Graeme]

If this crack-down is relatively new, and there aren't signs up everywhere informing you, I reckon you could get away with it.

You'll probably go ages without seeing a police officer, and when you do, just apologise, say you didn't know and that you'll stop doing it.

[Fairy joinee jenkins]

Wooo! Chalk! I haven't done pavement chalking for forever!

[Tea + Cake Joinee Manning]

I like the sound of the chalking, but we'd probably have to check to make sure the council have no objections to it. And I'll have to overcome my ingrained hatred of chalk.

[Fab Loud SMJ YDMFreshmaker]

I could sing you "The Chalk Song"

[PJ Steff Worthington]

Hi all. Got a reply to an e-mail I sent to the council. Not good news.

I write with reference to your recent e-mail concerning consent to
distribute free printed matter in Birmingham City Centre which has been
passed to myself to reply. May I take this opportunity to appologise for
the delay in responding to you. Following extensive discussions with the
City Council's Legal Services Department and with the Head of Public Health
I would advise you that the Karma Army would not fall under any of the
legal exemptions to the free literature consent scheme. It would there not
be possible for us to wave the fee therefore you would be required to
submit and application form together with the appropriate fee should you
wish to distribute free literature within the consent zone (map enclosed).

I have enclosed an application pack for your reference should you wish to
apply for consent.

If you wish to discuss this matter in further detail please do not
hestitate to contact me on the telephone number given below.

Regards

Russell Davey
Lead Officer Environmental Crime
0121 303 5932

[Honorary Lesbian Rich]

Platinum Joinee Worthington, on 23 Jan 2007, 01:52 PM, said:

Hi all. Got a reply to an e-mail I sent to the council. Not good news.

I write with reference to your recent e-mail concerning consent to
distribute free printed matter in Birmingham City Centre which has been
passed to myself to reply. May I take this opportunity to appologise for
the delay in responding to you. Following extensive discussions with the
City Council's Legal Services Department and with the Head of Public Health
I would advise you that the Karma Army would not fall under any of the
legal exemptions to the free literature consent scheme. It would there not
be possible for us to wave the fee therefore you would be required to
submit and application form together with the appropriate fee should you
wish to distribute free literature within the consent zone (map enclosed).

I have enclosed an application pack for your reference should you wish to
apply for consent.

If you wish to discuss this matter in further detail please do not
hestitate to contact me on the telephone number given below.

Regards

Russell Davey
Lead Officer Environmental Crime
0121 303 5932

Sad news.

That said, I'd be wary of 'officials' who don't know the difference between 'wave' and 'waive'

This post has been edited by Honorary Lesbian Rich: 23 January 2007 - 12:42 PM

[Tea + Cake Joinee Manning]

Send him a nice letter back pointing out the spelling mistake. He could take it one of three ways. He'll laugh, cry or be really really angry. My money's on the third one.

(Actually that reminds me of Pratchett's thing on Schroedinger's cat in Lords and Ladies, where a cat in a box is on one of three states; alive, dead or bloody furious) [/geek]

[She'sAMonkeyLover]

those chalk messages are fab - joinees everywhere should be doing that anyway! maybe we can start a new thread with suggestions for nice chalk messages

[PJ Steff Worthington]

Just got a reply to my appeal against the fee (didn't have chance to point out spelling error).

You have asked me to re-consider my decision as to whether you should be
exempt from paying the fee for distribution of free printed material within
the leaflet control zone in the centre of Birmingham. I have taken legal
advice as to whether the term 'belief' would enable me to waive the fee so
that you can distribute the material without paying for a licence.

The legal advice I have received is that the term 'belief' appears to have
been included in the Act to ensure compliance with the European Convention
of Human Rights. Therefore, the term should be interpreted in the light of
European case law. In McFeeley v UK (1981) 3 EHRR 161, it was held that
belief means "more than just 'mere opinions or deeply held feelings'; there
must be a holding of spiritual or philosophical convictions which have an
identifiable content". Also, in the case of Campbell and Cosans v UK
(1982) 4 EHRR293, the Court took the view that "the term 'beliefs' ....
denotes a certain level of cogency seriousness cohesion and importance".
Therefore, the term belief in Schedule 3A is only likely to apply to
religious or non-religious beliefs protected by Article 9 of the ECHR.

Hence, I am of the opinion that my original decision is correct.

However, I would wish you all the best in your fundraising activities for
the local hospitals.


Gavin Tringham
Head of Public Health

Tel: 0121 303 6105
Fax: 0121 303 6994

bum.

[GJ Michelle P]

So "being nice to your fellow man" isn't a philosophical conviction?

[Au Joinee Rory]

GJ Patzlaff, on 26 Jan 2007, 08:20 PM, said:

So "being nice to your fellow man" isn't a philosophical conviction?

To paraphrase a quote from the opening chapter of The God Delusion, no matter how splendid a moral philosopher you are, no matter how deeply held your ethical, sociological and scientific opinions, and no matter how well supported by weight of evidence and argument, it can't compare to even the most feebly-held and inarticulate religious beliefs when trying to elicit support from others. This is the tyranny of faith.

[SJ Del (The Train Man)]

Honorary Lesbian Rich, on 23 Jan 2007, 12:27 PM, said:

Sad news.

That said, I'd be wary of 'officials' who don't know the difference between 'wave' and 'waive'

And puts a double 'p' in 'apologise'

[Platinum Joinee West]

Not really sad news, no.
leaflets ARE littering.
Every meet I see people throwing them away and dropping them.
Good on the Council I say.

anyhoo, yes, the chalk thing is ace on a stick!

we did chalk messages at GGF2 (I didn't even live here then, how odd, feels like I always have!) with directions from the station to the pb, and also the occassional happy message for curious muggles, such as "my, what a pleasingly jaunty angle your hat is balanced at!" and "your beard is more luxuriant than a thousand imitation alpaca sweaters"

It was fun


oh! almost forgot to say, have fun tomorrow everyone!!

This post has been edited by Zena: 03 February 2007 - 01:13 PM

[Mr Phil]

I miss your random compliments, Zena. As a result my eyes now sparkle like only three hundred FA Cups.